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Tuesday, October 27, 2009

Teaching Glenn Beck's most valued beliefs in school

Glenn Beck
Fact Engineer

Dear Brother Beck,

Although I can't fault the work you've done promoting the teaching of biblical science in our schools, you've done nothing to expose our nation's children to the Mormon science of the Book of Mormon and Pearl of Great Price. That's a shame. As one of America's most influential Mormons, you should be working hard to ensure that an LDS-based science curriculum receives the same consideration as intelligent design.

This year, millions of American children will be taught that Native Americans are descended from Asian people who migrated here over a land bridge. Not a single public school teacher will tell them the real truth: Native Americans, or as we call them, "Lamanites," are actually Jews who came here by boat in 600BC.

Nor will they be taught that God cursed the Lamanites by giving them dark skin. And who will tell them that the Book of Mormon promises Lamanites that they'll become "white and delightsome" again, after they've embraced the Gospel? Or that the Prophet, Spencer W Kimball, saw the delightsoming begining in the Sixties:
I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today.... The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos, five were darker but equally delightsome The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl--sixteen--sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents--on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather....These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated.
Our nation's children will never know about this wondrous miracle, because gentiles won't allow Mormon anthropology to be taught in our schools.

The same holds true for LDS astronomy and physics. You won't find a map of God's home solar system, the Kolob System, on a classroom wall. And no student will learn that God was able to create the earth in 6 days because he was on Kolob time (1 Kolob day equals 1000 Earth years).

But you have the ability to change all that. All you need to do is get on your TV show and demand that our fellow conservatives work as hard to promote the teaching of Mormon science as they do to promote biblical science instruction.

Once we've taken care of science, we can begin promoting an LDS-based history curricula. That'll be where the real fun begins. As I once told Brother Buttars:
Imagine if you will, the many hours of joy we could provide to our children if we taught true, Latter Day Saint history. Kids love to hear the story of the 2000 brave stripling warriors riding their heroic tapirs into battle against their iniquitous Nephite brethren. Why shouldn't they have the opportunity to learn about it in our schools.
Let me know if I can lend a hand.

Heterosexually yours,

Gen. JC Christian, patriot

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109 comments:

  1. I wrote this about four years ago in the General's honor:

    JEWISH INJUN MIDGETS RIDING TAPIRS

    Jewish injun midgets riding tapirs
    Nephi and Moroni riding trains
    Nightly we enjoy their mighty efforts
    Come on down and see them on the plains

    Kolob shines in distant golden showers
    Underwear adjusted--ah--that's nice
    When we get to Heaven pass the butter
    Don't let God the Adam take your rice

    (chorus)
    Mormons! Mormons!
    Sons of Perdition beware!
    Mormons! Mormons!
    Mormon, Mormons, Mormons everywhere!

    Some say Joseph Smith he was a stoner
    His visions caused by mushrooms that he ate
    Abundant were the spores in fertile forests
    Listen, it's just a thought, alright? Okay?

    I would like to tell my Handmaid something
    How the Word of God instructs me thus:
    I am sorely needing younger wives now
    We'll trade the Volvo in for a new bus

    (chorus)
    Mormons! Mormons!
    Sons of Perdition beware!
    Mormons! Mormons!
    Mormon, Mormons, Mormons everywhere!

    Some say Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
    Never manifested here at all
    All I need are Jewish Injun midgets
    Riding tapirs forth to save us all!

    One should never joke about religion
    Or buried treasure found with a peepstone
    Maybe Joseph Smith was spinning stories
    He spun himself a Kingdom and a Throne

    (chorus)
    Mormons! Mormons!
    Sons of Perdition beware!
    Mormons! Mormons!
    Mormon, Mormons, Mormons everywhere!

    Jewish Injun midgets riding tapirs
    Nephi and Moroni riding trains
    Nightly we enjoy their mighty efforts
    Come on down and see them on the plains

    Kolob shines in distant golden showers
    Underwear adjusted--ah--that's nice
    When we get to Heaven pass the butter
    Don't let God the Adam take your rice

    (chorus)
    Mormons! Mormons!
    Sons of Perdition beware!
    Mormons! Mormons!
    Mormon, Mormons, Mormons everywhere!

    ++++

    ReplyDelete
  2. Mormonism turned me dyslexic. I was a bright, happy child. I spent many years being normal.
    However, ever since reading about Mormons, and their views, I have become dyslexic.
    Everytime I read something like 'LDS-based history curricula' I read 'LSD-based curricula'. It's a curse. The worst part of it isn't the misreading. Its the fact my brain can't discern the actual read-world difference between LDS-based curricula' and 'LSD-based curricula'. The result seems to be the same.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Jesus General, mon ami:

    It is I, Charles (pronounced: "Shaaaaaaaaaaarlzzzzzz), democommie's inner frenchman. He had a bit of sniffle last evening and, when a pint's worth of "Wild Irish Rose" hot toddies did not relieve his symptoms he decided that perhaps that old standby Robotussin would do the trick. He read the dosing instructions, after he finished the bottle, and is now snoring gently, but his airways are clear.

    I must admit to being under the impression that your use of the phrase, "whitesome and delightsome" was sarcasm or hyperbole. I am simply poleaxed to find that it is in fact a staple of the LDS beliefs.

    The word for today is "merde".

    ReplyDelete
  4. I had never thought about it that way. That's one of the great things about being taught factificatual things by Teh Gen'l. I learn stuff!

    So now it occurs to me that the Lamanitofascists could be seen as an affront to God. And not just because of their name. You think it's just a coincidence that it sounds so much like "IsLAMofascist"?

    Too bad that sensitive souls and members of that very race have made it politically incorrect to call them Indians. Because EVERYBODY knows the problems with Indians, which I will not dwell on. You knoooooow... HIC!

    The Lamanites' supposed long-time residence in the New World can be used against Christians! Sciencey atheist types like Austin Cline say there's "archaeological evidence" that they were in North America for more than 10,000 years. Which is impossible, 6,000 years old, yada yada...

    I can't decide which is the better course of action to counter this. Maybe genealogical vivisections and phrenology autopsies on a lot of them who are currently living in the U.S., especially the really swarthy ones. There can't be more than 6 million many pure ones, and if you examined enough of 'em, you'd finally have a solution to the problem, if you know what I mean. (Vink vink, nudge nudge, say nein more...)

    Or we could just ignore the Lamanites completely. To me, that's the best way to counter what seem to be glaring contradictions in religious history. If you cover your eyes and put your fingers in your ears, problem solved!

    Only, in this case, pat your right hand over your open mouth while loudly hollering "Woo Woo Woo!" That'll drive the liberals and Lamanites crazy!

    ReplyDelete
  5. ...a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter... sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents.

    Oh you doubters of the Delightsoming of The Lamanites, look upon this instance for the only proof you need... Since, obviously, there is absolutely no other possible explanation why a child might be of a different shade than their parents... General, maybe you could let Ofjoshua and your neighbor, Mr. Garcia, do a guest post to explain this phenomena further - I recall something similar happening with you and your offspring (although not quite the same, since they were already pretty delightsome to begin with, and only blessed by G*d with greater natural melanin levels to fight against the hole in the ozone layer).

    ReplyDelete
  6. I get all you monotheists confused.

    Are these 'Mormons' the same guys that have the big temple in Los Angeles and believe that there are tiny little demons living in your head?

    ReplyDelete
  7. What if you’re, say, more whitesome than you want to be, but not nearly as delightsome as, say, your wife would like you to be? Is there some sort of pill that could make you less whitesome but more delightsome? ’Cuz then I think you’d really have something.

    ReplyDelete
  8. And doesn’t it sometimes seem that there’s an inverse relationship between whiteness and delightsomeness?

    ReplyDelete
  9. I'd have to hunker down full time for a week to come up with this much balderdash, though I'd prefer to copy J.K. Rowling over the Mormons.

    Maybe that's what I'll do when I retire.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Mormonism is more more profound than you aere giving it credit for. It is easy to cast any culture or faith in a skeptical, sinister light.

    Your "analysis" of Mormon "science" shows a shallow understanding. Thanks mainly to anti-Mormon critics like yourself a wave of research has been done on Book of Mormon historicity. The results have been shocking.

    Rather than being unmasked by modern science and archeaology, the BOM's case has actually been strengthened. It is stronger now than it was 50 years ago. How could that be the case if an uneducated third grader made it up in 1830? You have no answer for that.

    For more info visit and spend some mind-boggling hours here:

    http://fairlds.org/apol/ai105.html

    ReplyDelete
  11. Bristol:

    Mormonism is more profoundly stupid than you are giving it credit for. Mormons aside from being unethical business people, historic bigots and racists and brainwashed cultists have nothing better to do with their free time than go after teh GAY (while in fact many of them are closeted.


    Your religion sucks (as do all others). Please go fuck yourself with that statue of MoronI that sits atop the SLC collection agency--mmmkay?

    ReplyDelete
  12. Normally I'm not in a big hurry to slag any belief system, even if for no other reason than because it brings psychological decompression to a too-often stressed mind. There are therapeutic benefits to believing in (a) God, any God.

    While I may think this, I know that many here flatly disagree, and that's OK.

    While I could defer to the General's relevant background on this Mormon matter, I'd sooner ask that Mr. Bristol pardon the slight.

    Regardless of how justified I may be, it isn't civil. Sorry.

    P.S. I wont however, spend some mind-boggling hours at your site: I'm already committed to conventional reality, and digesting that is more than enough.

    ReplyDelete
  13. You doubters, if you think the story of the Lamanites is so far- fetched, you should recognize the story of another tribe that came to America and settled in the Great Lakes region. It is even now undergoing a delightsome enlightenment and a conversion away from diabolical atheism. Witness just one epiphany and see if your cynicism isn’t totally washed away:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goL8llyG32U&feature=player_embedded#

    ReplyDelete
  14. bristol - you're supposed to get your information from putting your face in the hat, not from sucking the exhaust pipe of your F-150.

    ReplyDelete
  15. North America got the Lamanites; Australia got the Lamingtons. I reckon Oz got the better end of that balance, although I've never eaten a Lamanite.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I gotta agree with democommie. Anybody gullible enough to fall for Joe Smith's self-indulgence, aka mormonism, clearly, is without the ability to think. But, to actually be convinced that the archeological and historical evidence supports Smith's crackpot writings, teachings and behaviour, well, thats a whole other level of dumb-fuck stupid.

    ReplyDelete
  17. "Rather than being unmasked by modern science and archeaology, the BOM's case has actually been strengthened. It is stronger now than it was 50 years ago."

    Please, folks, be nice to Bristol. If she can say the above and not be joking, then she is speaking from profound ignorance. She has been brain-washed.

    ReplyDelete
  18. DNA is anti-Mormon!

    ++++

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  19. I’m Just a Girl: Is that the same hat that tells you what house your supposed to belong to at Hogwarts?

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  20. mjs,

    This is the same trickery of God or Satan (no-one is really sure who) as planting 'fossils' of 'dinosaurs' into the earth to test faith.

    God or Satan has clearly planted DNA from asians in American Indians to test mormon faith. There is simply no other rational reason.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I'm assuming that no one here is a DNA geneticist. Fortunately for the LDS Church many of LDS are. I recommend reading up on actual scientific BOM DNA studies, not generic attacks mounted by unqualified theologians with base Mormon vendettas.

    Among my favorites:
    1. Very recent Semitic DNA found among ancient American digs. Explain that.
    2. Numerous complex linguistic Hebraisms (linguistic DNA) found not only within the BOM text, but found by non-LDS scholars among ancient American archeaology. Explain that.

    Like I said, it's easy to dog pile on Mormons with callow regurgitation of outdated bile. The real challenge is to actually study the huge list of things that Joseph Smith got right that he never in a million years should have gotten right.

    ***Again, don't pretend to know about the BOM until you peruse the link below. Anyone who glosses over it is kidding themselves and giving Joseph Smith way too much credit as a lucky author. I Suspect some of you won't read it, what you're afraid of finding?

    http://fairlds.org/apol/ai105.html

    ReplyDelete
  22. Furthermore, The LDS Church teaches that most American Indians came over from Asia prior to the BOM. The BOM has never pretended to be the record of ALL inhabitants. Rather, it is clear that it deals with a very small limited geography which over thousands of years was eventually absorbed into a larger native population. This is perfectly consistent with the BOM text (which of course no one here as actually read).

    Do some real research into it. The BOM DNA issue has been thoroughly rebuted by (geneticist) LDS scholars.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Also, you mentioned dinosaur fossils. Mormon doctrine does not preclude evolution. Most LDS have no problem with evolution. In fact, unlike mainstream Christians, the LDS believe that progression and evolution (Dan Brown Lost symbol style) is central to God's plan.

    ReplyDelete
  24. James:

    It's easy to say that from your postion of realtive ignorance on the subject. What do you know about it? PHD from Harvard in BOM Studies?Are you disputing that the case for the BOM has strengthened since it was first published? Unfortunately, that fact is not disputable.

    Thanks to the slow march of discovery, there are actually MANY more evidences that support the BOM now than in the last century. They must be accounted for. You have a right to say you disagree but facts don't lie. (Did you visit the link yet?..)

    ReplyDelete
  25. Bristol: I thought Mormons weren't supposed to drink coffee.

    ++++

    ReplyDelete
  26. PS. Nothing I have said is opinion. That goes for the articles on the link I provided. Just so we are on the same page, these are all facts. How you approach these findings is up to you. Obviously, if you don't want the BOM to be real then it never will be for you.

    Obama doesn't want the coming hyper-inflation to be real either. What fun!

    ReplyDelete
  27. Okay, this is, like, totally off topic and everything, but until the General posts another paean to His Honor Senator/President Joseph “Traitor Joe” Lieberman (Douchebag – Connecticut), I offer this bit o’ wit ’n wisdom from th’ Wonkette, re: Lieberman’s threatened filibuster of the public option:

    “You should be feeling a sensation right now akin to gallons of toxic synthetic petrochemicals scorching permanent holes through your duodenum and brain. Because Joe Lieberman is threatening to derail this whole thing — maybe STILL for revenge over his 2006 primary loss, but more likely just for basic corporate campaign donations — over a lie. The public option would not be a government-funded entitlement for free health care; it would a self-sufficient program financed by premiums. He knows this, what with it being super easy to understand and all.”

    Seems to me, this is the kind of thing we liberals need to say, more and more often, and exactly like that.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Uh, Bristol, the riding the tapir bit is from that FAIR's predecessor, FARMS. That's how they explains horses in the BOM.

    As for not all Native Americans being Lamanites. That's a new claim resulting from DNA embarrassment. Before that, prophets and apostles said all NA's were Lamanites. Spencer W. Kimball states it in the quote I reprinted above.

    Think about it. Have you heard of an NA who wasn't told he was from the tribe of Judah during his patriarchal blessing?

    ReplyDelete
  29. Bristol: You know, coffee. I thought Mormoms weren't supposed to drink the stuff, i.e. Morning Mud. Cup of Joe. Java. The Black Zapper. Battery acid. Caffeine in a cup. Café noir. Cappuccino. Demitasse. Espresso. Forty weight. Steamin' ink. Jamocha. Varnish remover. You know, coffee.

    ++++

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  30. Heh, heh. “Forty weight.” I like that.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Gen:

    1. Prophets are not infallible and never claimed to be. Accepting that human prophets make mistakes dissolves most anti-Mormon arguments.

    2. It is not a "new claim from embarassment." The BOM never claims that it is the account of all inhabitants of the Americas. If people (including not infallible human prophets) assumed the book speaks of the whole hemisphere then that was their opinion. Stick with the text, it says no such thing.

    3. Funny that critics cherry pick the rare "questionable" items in the BOM while glossing over the litany of bullseyes that they're scared to address. It's like finding an alien spacecraft on your lawn and saying it is bogus because some paint is chipping. What about the spacecraft?... The Book of Mormon is a juggernaut that demands explanation. There is no satisfactory explanation, especially if you have read it.

    As for "horses," seems semantic to me. The FAIR argument is more than plausible. The list of "unfound items" in the BOM has shrunk by almost 80% since 1830. That's part of what I'm referring to about the book's evidence growing.

    Again, if the rural third-grader Smith whipped it out of his ass then it would be riddled with redneck problems and inconsistencies that modern discovery would have exposed. Especially since the book is so complex. Why are there more "hits" today? Frankly, even a few hits would be magic, but come on, we have hundreds. If the Book is false fine, but you have to account for these. Reason demands it.

    ReplyDelete
  32. mjs:

    Yep, coffee (caffeine) falls into the camp with alchohol & cigarettes. Two things the LDS Church warned about in ......the 1830's. Another bullseyes for the Church considering these substances were considered safe until recently.

    Caffeine in large amounts is bad. You disagree?

    ReplyDelete
  33. Bristol, did you read the FAIR entry about satyrs in the BOM. Hilarious. So Smith translated the Golden Plates using the magical urim and thummin, but somehow translates "goat" as "satyr." Maybe the urim and thummin had a virus that day. http://en.fairmormon.org/Satyrs_in_the_Book_of_Mormon

    ReplyDelete
  34. Sometimes I drink so much coffee I see satyrs.

    ++++

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  35. Symbology is a vital part of both the BOM & Bible constructs. I understand when some critics fail to manifest the intellectual complexity required to grasp the more nuanced aspects of LDS scripture. I guess blunt literalism is cool if you like cartoon Jesuses. I agree with this:

    http://en.fairmormon.org/Satyrs_in_the_Book_of_Mormon

    ReplyDelete
  36. You lightly toss around trivial semantics like horse and goat as if they has some cosmic ramification. Meanwhile, I sit here thumbing through several large books by Iby League educated LDS archeaologists explaining ridiculously advanced evidences of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Page after page, I would be here all month outlining these factual evidences.

    ReplyDelete
  37. General, Sir:

    Is Uma Thurman a moron? I mean her name sounds like them other things you're talking about, so I was just wondering.

    Bristol:

    Dude/dudette:

    I suggest you hook up with Joe Farrah at WorldNut Daily. He has some fascinating fantasies of his own about creation, teh GAY and other burning issues. BTW, nobody's been able to produce President Obama's Kenyan birth certificate, but you folks have prolly baptized him, so can you whip up the original for our perusal.

    Joe Smith was a con man whose con finally caught up with him.

    I guess abject stupidity is cool if you believe in magic underwear and prophesying tophats.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Doctrine & Covenants 130 foreshadows concepts of Einstein's Relativity in the 1830's. Gotta love those third grade farm boy charlatans.

    ReplyDelete
  39. democommie:

    LDS garments. Thanks for mentioning that. I missed one of Joseph Smith's greatest hits regarding ancient Judaic/Egyptian temple ritual and vestiges. I'm sure it was a lucky guess.

    Read a book by Hugh Nibley entitled "Temple and Cosmos." Over 600 pages of LDS/Semitic parallel.

    Farm boys rock!

    ReplyDelete
  40. They must have had one amazing public library of ancient knowledge in Palmyra New York in 1820 that allowed the poverty stricken Joseph to steal all of these great cultural idiosyncrasies that modern scholars didn't know about until the late 20th Century. Smith must have been a reader!

    ReplyDelete
  41. Okay, am I allowed to say this? This is now my favorite comment thread on the General’s. Or, at least my favorite of the past few months, anyways. Not only did I learn some new expressions for “coffee,” which I generally prefer to call “coffee,” but now I’m leaning toward “forty-weight”; but I learned a whole bunch of stuff about tapirs and Native American Jews and things that make my Catholic upbringing seem just a little less skeevy, if you know what I mean.

    For the record, I had to look up “skeevy” on urbandictionary.com, and I’m still not sure I’m using it right. Imagine my sense of beskeevement.

    For the record, I had to look up “skeevy” on urbandictionary.com, and I’m still not sure I’m using it right.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Not sure why that last part posted twice. Must be something skeevy about the comments tonight, General.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Here are some further scientific lucky guesses by Smith, including details of the Relativity teachings. D&C 130 is not the only Section:

    http://rsc.byu.edu/JSAlvinBensonModernScience.php

    ReplyDelete
  44. Oh... Did I forget to mention Quantum Mechanics?

    It's in there too. 1830 was a good ridiculously good year for budding redneck physicists in rural New York.

    ReplyDelete
  45. But we can keep talking about horses if you prefer

    ReplyDelete
  46. Or how about D&C 93 which answers some of the most difficult philospohical questions that have plagued beard pulling thinkers for millenia. I especially am fond of the teachings on light, intelligence and matter. Not to mention the purpose of life.

    ReplyDelete
  47. How are the swine doing? I've got some more pearls to cast unless you'd rather go watch Keith Olberman.

    ReplyDelete
  48. Keith needs a rating boost since that awful Mormon Glenn Beck is pulverizing him in the head to heads.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Maybe if Keith used Vicks vap-o-rub to make himself cry on air so it looks like he is really passionate about something he would get better ratings. Or Keith could just turn his show into the freak show circus that is the glenn beck program and talk about islamofascistgayatheistcoummunistnaziillegalaliensocialst that are ruining America, but it seems that fox news already has dibs on that.

    ReplyDelete
  50. 1. Prophets are not infallible and never claimed to be. Accepting that human prophets make mistakes dissolves most anti-Mormon arguments.

    Shorter version: "He said he was channeling the word of God, but he goofed! No biggie..."

    Uh, if someone claims to be speaking for God, and he's WRONG, doesn't that make him either a fool or a charlatan? I could be impolite and say " or a lunatic," but rudeness like that is Demo's job.

    Seriously, Bristol, your position seems to be "Our religious book is a spectacular revelation of The Truth From God, except we got it wrong in a lot of ways. But that's OK -- we're working on it. Aren't we awesome?"

    BTW, I went to your site and read one of the articles, the 1975 one on Lamanites. Not a speck of scientific evidence, just religious science fiction. I'd read more, but I have better things to do today, such as snickering.

    But good onya for being polite in sticking up for your faith, which is no more silly than epics about Hanuman the Flying Monkey God, or the story of an illiterate loser hiding in a desert cave and taking dictation from the Archangel Gibreel, or gods that are bulls and 8-armed blue women...

    You credulous believers all deserve an extra bikkie, a pat on the head and a gold star on your attendance record. You're just "special." I mean that in the "ed" sense...

    ReplyDelete
  51. Harry, Are you calling Glenn a circus clown? Well, we can't all be lion tamers like you guys.

    The "vicks" stunt was staged for satire. Don't believe everything you read. We'll see if Beck is remotely right when inflation and 20% interest rates hit us in two years Carter style.

    ReplyDelete
  52. From whitesomer and delightsomer
    to quantum mechanics
    we'll be forever perplexed
    by the contortionist logic
    of religious fanatics.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Bukko,

    Prophets don't always speak for God. They aren't like some Roman vestal virgins locked in an oracle. They see movies and go to Sizzler lke you and me. LDS prophets never claimed to be infallible. They are humans too. Until you clarify that in your mind none of these issues will make sense to you.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Jewish Indians for Christ's sake.

    Need I say more?

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  55. We have the greatest and smoothest liars in the world, and also the best rodeo clowns- Brigam Young

    ReplyDelete
  56. Hey Bristol, just because you can't be a lion tamer doesn't mean you have to settle for sensationalist clown, like glenn beck, and is he predicting something 2 years from now? I figured we'd all be locked up in FEMA camps slaving away for our new islamofascist overlords by then. Don't believe everything you hear, especially if it comes from the idiot Glenn Beck.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Once I drank three double espressos and then ran all the way across Lake Powell and back again. Zoom! My friends found me the next day, hiding in a motel in Kanab, clutching a biscotti to my chest while exclaiming that God was a giant beaver. Good times.

    ++++

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  58. Chuck, I got yer Jewish Indians right here
    and Bristol, thanks for the laugh I got at imagining Moses in the salad bar line at Sizzler.

    ReplyDelete
  59. rev,they gave away Manhatten for some beads?
    Whataya think, I'm some kinda schmuck?

    ReplyDelete
  60. You know, if there is a god, and he's a friggin giant beaver, we'd all be dammed.

    ReplyDelete
  61. I never wanted to be a chartered accountant. I wanted to be … a lion tamer!

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  62. I wonder if Bristol is really Orson Scott fucking Card. Now there's a genuine moron genius if there ever was one.

    ReplyDelete
  63. the rev. paperboy: that's Him! That's God! A great big, hairy beaver! Well, it's back to the Forty Weight for me...

    ++++

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  64. Prophets don't always speak for God.

    If they don't speak for God, why do they call themselves "prophets"? Because that's the definition of the word when it comes to religion -- "God's mouthpiece." So your Popes aren't Prophets as in "prophets" -- they're just high muckety-muck preachers with a fancy job title?

    Is Mormonism like the Aussie version of English, where certain words mean different things here to what they mean in America? "Biscuit" is one example. Here it's a sweetened cookie, in the U.S. it's a doughy thing you'd put under sausage gravy. Except "biscuit" is a minor word. "Prophet" isn't trivial thing when it comes to religion.

    If I convert to Mormonism because I'm swayed by the overwhelming power of the evidence and the far-out stories, I'm going to start calling myself a "Doctor." I'm actually a nurse, but hey -- "doctor" bears the same relationship to "nurse" as Mormon "Prophet" bears to "preacher," so it must be OK. Until the licencing board finds out.

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  65. Once I drank three double espressos and then ran all the way across Lake Powell and back again. Zoom! My friends found me the next day, hiding in a motel in Kanab, clutching a biscotti to my chest while exclaiming that God was a giant beaver. Good times.

    Sounds like you were drinking the Starbucks Mescalino-chino. Maybe you got the "iced" one. Not the one with frozen-water ice...

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  66. Bukko,
    So you're sticking with the vestal virgins approach. Fine, but that logic is weak. Why should a "prophet" be expected to be a prophet 24/7? What if God has nothing to say tomorrow and the prophet makes an off-the-cuff remark about anthropology? So what?

    Humans can make mistakes. Nothing the LDS prophets have officially said has been wrong. Holding them to personal opinions is unfair.

    And what about that "evidence" that you side step? You claim the BOM is teaming with mistakes. I am saying that it does not have any critical errors that render it catagorically false. When you look up "gloss" in the dictionary there's a photo of this blog. Somebody please explain to me how Smith pulled it off. I want a comprehensive literary theory.

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  67. Actually, your doctor analogy is fitting. Have you ever heard a doctor say "don't take this as definitive medical advice, but I personally feel that..." Then in 10 years new data renders his personal view worng. Big deal.

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  68. Well, nite folks. Enjoyed the conversation, interesting anyway. I think I'll stick with Joseph smith for the eloquent answers that none of you seem to have.

    Happy trails!

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  69. The gingerbread man doesn't have any errors that make it categorically false....except maybe for the gingerbread man being able to talk and run and be a general ass; however, the being gullible part is right on. I bow to you gingerbread chump.

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  70. Belief is like a jailer
    Who offers you a key
    To free you from a prison
    The jailer built for thee

    ++++

    Double Tap Bonus:

    That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

    Christopher Hitchens
    (yes, that drunken bitch does cough up a gem
    now and again!)

    ++++

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  71. Nite Bristol. By the way if you like what Joseph Smith offers you, may I suggest the Church Of The Flying Spaghetti monster or The Holy Church of Bacon? If you can believe the silly LDS tripe then these will be right up your alley.

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  72. OK I confess, I came back to check again. so addicting. This is my last post for real.

    May I ask? We are floating on a rock in the midst of an unimaginable space? It's just that pessemistic secular humanist nehilism is such a drag.

    "The glory of God is intelligence." D&C 93

    "Behold this is my work and my glory to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (to make men intelligent and capable like God) Moses 1:39

    I think we are meant to be creators with God.

    OK cats, nite!

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  73. This spaghetti is yummy!

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  74. Wow, Bristol, whoda thunk that Joseph Smith not only conveniently managed to lose those golden tablets after "translating" them, but also figured out quantum mechanics and relativity. Damn, that was one smart farm boy indeed!! And those frigging JEW physicists like Einstein knew all about it but covered up the Truth.

    Hint here, Bristol: you can't have the Book of Mormon be BOTH literal truth AND the basis for a collection of religious mysteries.

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  75. Oh yeah, Bristol, maybe you could explain how it is that Spencer Kimball (or whichever prophet was in charge of the church at the time) oh-so-conveniently had that revelation back in the 1970s or so that the dark-skinned were not cursed after all. I don't suppose the timing of this revelation had anything to do with the fact that BYU sports teams were being hounded by anti-racism protesters all over the US.

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  76. graydevilcat:
    Nothing you said is relevant to veracity in the least. Really.

    nite, love!

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  77. "Cover up your excrement so that God will not turn away from you." (Deut. 12-14)

    "He spilled his semen on the ground. What he did was wicked in the Lord's sight; so he put him to death also." (Gen. 38:9-10)

    Hey look, I can quote bible verses too! Oh, and I am a secular humanist but not a pessimistic nihilist.

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  78. And finally, Bristol, I recently had a chat with a Mormon acquaintance, a geologist by trade, and queried him about the whole "Lamanite" schtick: Native Americans as descendents of the "Lost Tribes of Israel", yadda yadda yadda. He regaled me with some blather about the myth of Queztalcoatl, how the Spaniards conquered the Aztecs and Incas because those tribes had some ancestral memory of seeing white men, and so on. This is a perfectly intelligent guy who is respected in his profession, who derides creationist fundamentalist hacks, and so on, yet he's convinced the Book of Mormon is historically accurate. Can we just say "cognitive dissonance"?

    Man, I have no trouble at all with metaphorical readings of the Bible, the Quran, the Buddhist sutras, or the Book of Mormon, but reading them literally? Good Gawd....

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  79. Well, Harry figured it out, folks! Now we can all breath easy.

    Tell you what, I will revoke my membership in the LDS Church tonight if you can describe to me:

    1. How atoms spontaneously formed at the sub-atomic level.

    2. How you came to have a hand and eyes.

    3. What shape the universe is, but especially in light of recent Cambridge physicist's discovery that there are now at least 11 spacial dimensions, not the mere four we love.

    4. My favorite. Where is your intelligence and where did it originate?

    You have no answers. Why should I read to a word you write?

    nite!

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  80. Bristol, you want veracity, herewith some extended quotes about LDS doctrine regarding black people. The source is:

    http://www.signaturebookslibrary.org/blacksaints/chapter2.htm


    "Religious discrimination can nonetheless be traced to Smith's early statements. In 1841 he said that biblical Ham had been cursed with a dark skin by his father Noah and that this curse continued to the 'posterity of Canaan.' The next year he identified 'negroes' as 'sons of Cain.' In May 1844 just before his death, he declared, 'Africa, from the curse of God has lost the use of her limbs.'...

    "After Smith's death in 1844, Mormon opinions about blacks became more prejudiced. A church newspaper, the Times and Seasons, reiterated Smith's statement in 1845 that blacks were 'the descendants of Ham.'...

    "In 1887 Apostle George Q. Cannon asserted that 'the Prophet Joseph Smith taught this doctrine: That the seed of Cain could not receive the priesthood nor act in any of the offices of the priesthood.'...

    "The First Presidency did not issue an official public statement of priesthood denial until 1949: 'The attitude of the church with reference to the Negroes remains as it has always stood. It is not a matter of the declaration of a policy but of direct commandment from the Lord on which is founded the doctrine of the Church from the days of its organization, to the effect that Negroes may become members of the Church but that they are not entitled to the priesthood at the present time.' The statement was a reaction to the growing number of blacks moving to Utah during World War II....

    "In 1963 the First Presidency tried with limited success to separate priesthood exclusion from the Civil Rights movement. In an official statement, they said: 'During recent months, both in Salt Lake City and across the nation, considerable interest has been expressed in the position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the matter of civil rights. We would like it to be known that there is in this Church no doctrine, belief, or practice that is intended to deny the enjoyment of full civil rights by any person regardless of race, color, or creed.' Church observers generally agree that this statement was made because the NAACP had threatened to picket Temple Square....

    "Just a few weeks after this statement was issued, Joseph Fielding Smith, the son of Joseph F. Smith and later church president, told Look magazine, 'Darkies are wonderful people and they have their place in our church.' The next year he stated that 'the Lord' established priesthood denial....

    "In 1965 the NAACP, noting that the church-owned Deseret News had not endorsed a state civil rights bill, threatened to picket the church's administration building. The newspaper responded by confirming the 1963 church statement, and the state legislature passed the public accommodations and fair employment acts. Yet not all church leaders supported civil rights. Ezra Taft Benson, then an apostle and later church president, claimed that the movement was 'fomented almost entirely by the communists.'"

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  81. gravy:

    for the record I agree with you. Mormons are not Evangelicals, thank God. We view MUCh of the scriptures as allegory and metaphor, believing that symbols are very powerful communicators of important complex concepts.

    Temple ritual (ancient or modern) is pure, efficient symbology. As is the global flood, the eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. LDS stand alone in a belief that Eve (feminist) did the right thing eating the apple. The purpose of life is embodied in the fruit for Mormons. knowledge of good and evil is what we are on Earth for. Progression. Evolution. To learn to become as god, our literal father through hard knocks and learning to choose good over evil, etc.

    I knoew EBVERYONE here thinks they loathe Mormons. I think (I'm probably alone here) that may of you would find you agree with LDS philosophy. It is nothing like other Christian religions. It's very progreesive.

    Don't tell Glenn Beck, but one of Joseph Smith's crowning achievements was a psuedo-communist social structure known as the United Order. It was a law of consecration, very similar to socialism but with a radically different foundation based on voluntary involvement. This of course came decades before Marx.

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  82. No, we have no answers Bristol, but we recognize that, at the moment, these qestions are not necessarily answerable. We do not accept that some supernatural being wrote all the answers down on some gold plates for Joe Smith to find, "translate" and reproduce only to have the plates supernaturally vanish, because, even for a religious answer, that is one of the most cockamamie pyramids of bullshit ever gathered together in book form. I'd sooner base my life on the teachings and writings of Harry Houdini, who at least recognized and admitted that there was no such thing as magic.

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  83. "What shape the universe is, but especially in light of recent Cambridge physicist's discovery that there are now at least 11 spacial dimensions, not the mere four we love."

    Yo Bristol, you mean spatial, not "spacial". The eleven dimensions stuff is some sort of statement about string theory, and yes, you would need a very competent physicist to explain string theory to you--BTW, it's still fairly controversial amongst physicists. "Recent discovery" by a Cambridge physicist is nonsense: the notion within string theory of additional dimensions has been around for at least a decade.

    "How you came to have a hand and eyes...Where is your intelligence and where did it originate?"

    A biologist would tell you this is all to do with evolution. Natural selection. WTF?? I thought the LDS church had no quarrel with science, including evolutionary biology.

    Yep, there's a very basic difference between us, Bristol. I see something in the natural world that's not well understood, and I think, well, let's apply scientific principles to figure it out. You see the same thing, throw up your hands, and say, it's not for us to figure out because it's God's Work.

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  84. Garvy:

    Facts:

    1. Mormons were driven out of Missouri because they were anti-salvery. It was legal to kill a Mormon in Missouri until 1976. You could literally walk out of court a free man in 1976 due to an oversight.

    2. Blacks were allowed to be baptized and sit next to whites in pews from the beginning. Some Christian churches didn't allow this until the 60's.

    3. The first radical suffragette organization was started in the 1860's by Utah Mormon women. Utah was the first state to allow women to vote. The federal govt threatened to punish utah so Mormons removed women's vote until the 1890's. Seriously. tell that to your berkeley feminists.

    Don't talk to me about Mormon oppresion. many of the "sentiments" from certain LDS leaders was merely a cultural product of their time and studies have shown that it is no different than the rest of the US. A smoke screen by anti-Mormons aching to denounce leaders.

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  85. PS, my Bishop right now is a black frenchman from paris married to a white Parisian woman. I kid you not. You should ask him about blacks and the Church. Don't read into the propaganda, it has been sensationilzed.

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  86. Gray:
    It is at least as unwise for you to rule out the possibility of a creator, than it seems to you for me to rule out there not being one. As you said, we just can't prove anything catagorically. I'm uncomfortable reconciling existence without a design. I wouldn't stumble across a Ferrari and asusme it came from nature. Complexity indicates intelligence. Is life any less than a Ferrari?

    Here I go all Shakespeare..

    Look, Agnostics I am fine with. But with so much complexity in the universe you have to at least leave room for some intelligence. Even if you don't know now.

    Yes, Mormons do believe in nature, science and intelligence together. My question about the hand, regardless of what biologists declare, had more to do with origin of things. Science has no bead on origins. They can't even imagine how this all occured. That is spooky.

    And lay off my typos - it's effing late.

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  87. revboy:

    without staring another BOM taffy pull. I stand by my challenge above (lengthy) about the comprehensive literary explanation for the BOM. It can't be done rationally.

    Do I think your going to jump into an LDS baptismal font now? Probably not.

    It should give you pause though. Unless you are not really familiar with:

    A. Joseph Smith's background (he was not qualified for this)

    B. The complexity of the BOM coupled with a litany of perplexing "bullseyes" that he got right. There's just now way. i'm talking about things tat weren't discovered until the 1970's

    How did he know?

    Did you know that discoveries of ancient (biblical) scrolls in Egypt and Palestine contained obscure LDS doctrines such as deification, eternal marriage covenants and LDS only views of God?

    Evangelicals and Catholics were quick to marginalize these texts because the findings scared the shit out of them. They declared them heretical. These were from 200 BC - 100 AD.

    Did Joseph Smith get lucky? What does it take to get you to say "that's odd..." I mean come on. These are not singular events. We have hundreds of these odd bullseyes. Things JS just never could have known. I've done lots of research, what am I supposed to do with this, gloss over it like the idiots on here? It's almost getting ridiculous.

    It's not like these facts are buried. It's easy to dog-pile Joseph Smith. People try to make him out to be a simple con-man charlatan, he is turning out to be a prophetic indeed. There is no other explanation. I'm open to one though...

    Did you know the BOM was written in under two months? WTF?

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  88. Bristol:

    Joe Smith wasn't a simple con-man charlatan. He was a megalomaniacal, messianic, racist, fabulist, womanizing, hypocritical piece of shit who cobbled together a "Holy Book" that was and is convincing enough--for idiots such as yourself--to waste their lives defending it to people who simply laugh at the notion of any god, never mind your GOD, having a group of favorites amongst his millions of creations on this sad little planet.

    I think the mother ship from Kolub will be here to pick you up soon. Best start packing.

    Let me give you one bit of advice. When you go out prosletyzing on your bike, wear a full face mask and learn to duck.

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  89. I thought Mormoonie missionerrants didn't have to fight back. They just bored people to death with their droning nonsense...

    Working in hospitals and psych wards has taught me there's no point in using logic on demented people, schizophrenics or religious true believers. Rational arguments are round pegs aimed at their brains, which are full of square holes. Best to speak soothingly, pat them on the head and have a 3 cc syringe with 1 mg of IM Haloperidol handy if they start biting.

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  90. Bukko in Australia:

    "Best to speak soothingly, pat them on the head and have a 3 cc syringe with 1 mg of IM Haloperidol handy if they start biting."

    Do you do housecalls? I'm feelin' a powerful urge to gnaw on somethin'!

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  91. Bristol, the Compromise of 1850 allowed Utah to choose whether to be a slave territory. The completely LDS territorial legislature voted yes. The territorial governor, Brigham Young, signed the bill into law.

    Blacks were denied the priesthood until 1976.

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  92. "Did you know the BOM was written in under two months? WTF?"

    Definitely coffee.

    mjs, you're a better diviner than joseph smith

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  93. Bristol:

    "I knoew EBVERYONE here thinks they loathe Mormons. I think (I'm probably alone here) that may of you would find you agree with LDS philosophy. It is nothing like other Christian religions. It's very progreesive."

    Wrong, dipshit, on so many different levels.

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  94. Good for you, Bristol, most Mormons deny that the United Order was a socialist institution. But you're wrong to suggest that it was a Mormon innovation. Utopian socialism was a common feature of the religions that sprang from the Second Great Awakening. Mormons, Oneidans, Amanans, Shakers, and many other sects birthed at the time practiced it.

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  95. We don't know everything, therefore Joseph Smith and his followers (or Semitic priests or the Council of Bishops etc.) were right. Eh, no. Go back into the bag of tricks and find another one.

    ++++

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  96. Mr. mjs, Sir:

    "Go back into the bag of tricks and find another one."

    I think the "bag of tricks" is a "May basket" and no matter how pretty the ribbons and bows, it's still a sack of shit.

    General, Sir:

    Is this Bristol person derelict in not "handing off" to an LSD'er who sleeps at night? Or is it that Bristol just isn't worth a damn before having that first, invigorating infantahemolatte of the day?

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  97. bristol - "Complexity indicates intelligence. Is life any less than a Ferrari?"
    I.e. "It says right here on the can, Hormel"

    Sorry for the repeat, but after I screwed up the link, I wonder if anyone missed the [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goL8llyG32U&feature=player_embedded#]pâté2nlightnment[/url] .

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  98. General Sir,
    Damn sorry I missed this one - Can Bristol come out and play again?
    Being born and raised here in Zion, I have a feeling that Bristol has more than the standard BYU bachelor of science. Hey Bristol do you live in SLC? I like to do my disagreements mano y mano.
    And being raised Cath-o-lick, as council VonEbers describes, I got no room to be stone throwin - but Joseph Smith found it mighty convenient to have revelations about plural wives when angry husbands and fathers came a calling with pitchforks in Palmyra, kirkland, nauvoo... I'm just sayin.

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  99. Hey bristol, I'll tell you what, If you can explain to me how some guy who was nailed to a cross 2000 years ago, or his supernatural spirit father can create everything we have in seven days then I will convert to mormonism tonight.

    You have no answers, only blind faith that you more than likely were brainwashed into believing as a child.

    I find it hilarious that when certain things are unknown to science at the time, fundies are the first to scream "GOD DID IT, THAT IS PROOF THAT GOD EXISTS".

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  100. Demo, you would not want Haldol. It makes you feel like your brain is wrapped in cotton wool, for DAYS at a time. I took some once by mistake -- thought it was something else. There's a long story behind that, which led to one of my personal mottos -- "Never buy drugs from someone who says he's Jesus." But this might not be the bes place to go any further into THAT!

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  101. General, Sir:
    Over 100 posts on this Morman topic and nary a mention of Big Love? People. Let's get with it around here.

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  102. But Bukko, what if he really is Jesus?

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  103. If he WAS Jeebus, he wouldna sold me such bad shit. Jesus gave the wedding party good wine, not Ripple...

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  104. But Bukko, now that we know how them prophets are fallible, maybe Bristol can explain to us how you are just cherry picking one little mistake this particular jeebus made?

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  105. Bukko in Australia:

    JESUS didn't GIVE anybody the wine. There was a misunderstanding and the wedding's host thought the wine was a gift. When the invoice (which was written in english, thus adding to the confusion) went past 180 days, it was turned over to the BIG GUY for collection. He simply visited hellfire, pionidal cysts, anal fissures, penile warts and leprosy on the deadbeat and the bill was paid post haste! Unfortunately for the payee, the various plagues that were laid on him were considered the "vig" and a good example of what not to do when JESUS--or any other deity--does one a good turn.

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  106. But I paid teh Jeebus in full for the Haldol I got! I forget how much I gave him, since my brain was semi-catatonic for several days And this Jeeb prolly got it for free, since he told me he had recently been released from a regional mental hospital. So Jesus got a good deal from me. No Divine Retribution necessary.

    I reckoned any med that would keep that fellow mellow must be good stuff. That was when I was less pharmaceutically aware. Now I wonder whether he was the Devil just PRETENDING to be Jesus. The real Jesus would have sold me lorazepam...

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  107. Here's the leading video in Glenn Beck's national video contest for his Arguing with Idiots book. The creator is mormon. It makes fun of the progressive view of "New America" and promotes the ideals of the 9.12 project:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ibHFAXGUwo

    ReplyDelete

We'll try dumping haloscan and see how it works.